13 MAY 2015
4:00 P.M.:

KURTIS LINDQVIST: It's time to start. I'm Kurtis Lindqvist, I am one of the two chairs of the RIPE NCC Services Working Group, together with Bigal who is just finding her seat. A few housekeeping issues before we start. First of all, Brian asked me to remind you all that the PC elections are ongoing, you should all go and vote for the PC for RIPE.

Secondly, if you, just like me until a few minutes ago, forgotten to register for the GM, you should have done it earlier, you can also go and register for the GM if you're quick.

And again, as usual, for those of you who have been here before the moment we're done here, I forgot to ask, the GM will be in here ‑‑ can you please leave the room as quick as possible when we're done so that they can set up for the GM and we don't lose time in transitioning.

So, this is the RIPE NCC Services Working Group. As you know we'ring the Working Group of love, your favourite Working Group and we have an agenda as usual.

It's the housekeeping issues we're going through now and then we'll have axe em dot RIPE NCC updates followed by an update from Paul Rendek on the NCC outage, cafe will do the technical updates. We'll have the new NCC website by minutiae, and then I'm going to talk briefly about the mail I sent to you last week about the Working Group Chair selection process, open microphone and any other business.

We have a new scribe, who is doing this for the first time from the NCC, Michael. Thank you very much. Can you please state your name very clearly at the microphone so we get that, it makes his and our life easier in writing up the minutes.

Any other additions to the agenda? We're good to go with this one? Hearing nothing else, we're doing that. We have the minutes from the last RIPE meeting, they were posted to the mailing list last Monday. And I haven't seen any comments so far on the mailing list. Anyone have any comments on the minutes or can we approve the minutes as they are? No? Minutes approved. And with that we're done with housekeeping.


AXEL PAWLIK: Thank you. Good afternoon everybody, I hope you had enough time to get your coffees and your cookies and lovely stuff.

What we want to do is to give you a bit of an update from last year, most of you probably ‑‑ most of you probably haven't been at a RIPE meeting since last year, right, so you deserve some update from the end of the year. Also I want to talk about our focus for this year and some of the ‑‑ after my talk you will see much more detail by my colleagues who have some special talks for you there as well.

So we have heard this morning, if you were in the room, that oh there are so many more members of the RIPE NCC and of course RIPE NCC likes that because it makes it more important and there is more money. Well, there are more members, that is interesting, something probably we're doing right. Also, I have the idea that there are some other effects in play here. I would want to say that we don't feel this makes us extra important, it's great to see people coming in, of course, it has an influence on prices on our pricing scheme, which is lovely. I hope it doesn't go into a terrible death spiral of ever ever cheaper, ever ever more people, but we'll see how that goes over the next couple of years. Nearly 12,000 members by now. It's looking good.

So most of you have received your annual report in your e‑mail probably and you have read it and memorised it so there's no real point I should go through this, but there are of course non‑members in this room, so I'll bother you with this afterall.

So, like I said, big roles, more than 1,200 members over the course of 2015. We have had 2,400 meeting attendees, that goes for all of the various meetings we're doing, the RIPE meetings, regional meetings, we have done 112 training courses, met 2,290 people there, more or less, also very important we get the face‑to‑face feedback there. We have done nearly 2,500 last allocations on v4. And 1800 and a bit v6 allocations. Nearly a quarter of our members have their resources certified in RPKI which is great. Of course the rest of you get cracking. We have more than 7,500 class probes active by the end of the year. Insane numbers of RIPE Stat users, up from 1 million in 2013 to 2.6 million. Over the course of the year, 32,000 requests to customer services serviced.

Financial overview: 3.4 million surplus at the end of the year, despite our best efforts to forecast. This is being placed or has been placed at the end of the year in our reserves tax free as we could do that. Now the reserves were at 25 million, which is sensible I think still. Operational expenses were lower than we had budgeted, I'm proud of. Staff numbers, around budget a little bit higher there and cost per member, which is a very important, of course, to our members and to ourselves, lower than before.

We hope to be able to continue that trend.

Focus for this year: As we have laid out in the activity plan, the registry, a strong registry and a correct registry is our main and absolutely main focus, that's the most important thing that we have to maintain.

Outage, effective outage, external relations not only to our members but also to the other parties that have an interest in what we're doing, for you and the rest of the world is important. We are doing this and focusing on this this year as well. Consolidating, improving the service that is we are offering and also having a strong look again at creating for efficiencies, more members is fine, more money is fine, but also as we are getting still more experience in what we're doing and the way we are doing things, there should be more efficiencies to be reaped as well and we are looking at that.

Other things: There is so much going on and you have IANA stewardship transition which is very high on the agenda as well. There is so many other things going on in the political world, there is the business at the end of the year and things like that which we need to look at as well. But we find it very important obviously that we are looking at our service region, it's called a service region, that we look at our members and our community and make sure that whatever else we are doing for all of you also, we look at it direct needs first of all.

Our region is our priority.

Greater presence throughout the region, yes, we have been told don't always go there, go also here and don't forget us, we try very hard to spread ourselves across the entirety of our service region. And as you probably know, we are doing more smaller regional meetings as well, we spread trainings around as much as possible as well, so that is important. We want to get feedback from all of our members, not just from our old friends that we see every second month.

So, again, it's about members needs, your wishes, your needs, we need to understand that we need to talk to you and with greater feedback there, we think we get that.

And of course we also have to have talked to our staff internally saying it's great going to places and chatting with people and having a beer here and there, but also when we go back we take feedback back and feed the feedback back into the organisation so that we continue giving good services and follow up on that.

Transfers, mergers, legacy resource, policy transfers in IPv4 go up, we have heard about it this morning. We do see more mergers and acquisitions, not a big surprise really. We have been told to go after legacy resource holders and we're doing that in a good way, nearly half of them we have contacted by now, 700 have reacted in that they have chosen one of the available ways of associating with the RIPE NCC under the Legacy policy there. That's going forward as well, it's a lot of work but we knew that before.

Like I said, other service updates a little bit later. Stuff that has been given before of course you'll find online already in video as well. The other ones that are coming are mostly on Thursday, that's tomorrow, and a little bit on the Friday morning. Of course we'll all see you there on the Friday morning, I'm very happy about that.

Right. So, we did a big survey in 2013, that's two years ago, we got a lot of feedback there, we identified the key action points and we worked on that. Database improvement and integration with the LIR portal has been done. We pride ourselves of being more accessible these days, by phone live chat and different languages wherever we can make that possible. We do see from the numbers of registration numbers for general meetings, that that has worked to make it more accessible. Votes being cast are going up in numbers as well which is great. What we are looking for. The website has been rebuilt and a couple of weeks ago has been set live on you and I hope that you have seen it. You are not too confused by that. I think it looks /TPWRAEUT and it's much more understandable and I do get through it a bit better than before.

Increase of the academic community, the RACI activity has been /PWOELS /STERD in intensity and we do see this here at the RIPE meetings as well but we also take it to the regional meetings. Law enforcement /TKPWOFPLTS, they tend to understand (governments) much better what we are doing and that's due to now of course regular interaction and strengthed relationships there.

But we do not forget that our members are our most important relationships of course.

Learning opportunities, we are building on that and we have a bit of an update there later on. Also, current policy proposals are being summarised regularly and Marco mentioned that he is doing that in Russian an Arabic as well regularly, so there's all stuff that came out of the survey that we did in 2013.

We did consultations recently with focus groups there at the end of last year beginning of this, and we got a little bit more feedback, basically we asked where are we with regards to your wishes that we heard and are we on track or should we improve here, there, what are you thinking? So, we get basically a positive feedback, but of course we'll never be quite done. So, we will certainly continue with accountability, transparency efforts. This is pretty firmly embedded in our minds that we need to be putting attention to that. Value for money, is a little bit fuzzy but yes we understand this is what makes us also attractive. So we want to put work into that. RIPE involvement again for the policy development which is very important and needs to go also into the region, must be very clear. And the general meeting. Participation there. Simplified procedures, more engagements throughout the whole service region, translations, again, where possible, and reasonably possible. And training standards, more involvement again, lots of training courses but also face‑to‑face training courses but also the e‑Learning goes up and we have IPv6 training course coming live early June in two, three weeks roughly. So have a look please.

So, we are very happy with the feedback that we are getting. It's not that you are not talking to us, we can't complain about that. We will continue, as we promised. Next year we'll do one of the big surveys again so we would ask you already to be prepared for that and participate when it comes live and we will certainly remind you at the next RIPE meeting that this is coming.

But of course that's just the survey. You see us here, go talk to us, the board is here, we have a general meeting, you'll see people up on the stage and you can memorise their faces and go grab them. Other things that we're doing, smaller membership lunches, when we are going to a country for instance, a city, we know that there are members there and we frequently go and inform them that we are there and would you come and have lunch and talk to us. Training courses. Assisted registry checks are very, very popular, more than 40 are being scheduled for this year here which is great, better than we thought, that they are that popular actually. And of course lots of our things we're doing as well to get the news out and to get your feedback.

Talking about voting and community and community involvement. A couple of hours earlier today we had 550 votes for the general meeting, or registrations for the general meeting from nearly 50 countries, and I would hope that it might be 50 countries, but I can't promise that, so the intensity of the colours reflecting the number of votes, and we have seen quite a bit of activity happening there over the last couple of days actually, which is great, it shows that the community is galvanized and they are taking note of the general meeting and the opportunity to vote to elect board members and generally it's looking so much better than 15 years ago.

Vote counts. Yes, of course, we have two new members from last time around and we are doing very well on the executive board. We have two more seats available, one is an old seat and one is a new seat that is being filled for the first time as we were, or are, still growing the executive board a bit to enable us to, enable the board to do a bit more and go to more meetings, have representative from the board in those meetings for instance.

But of course, maybe the most important thing that the Board does is kick me if I do things wrong and give me guidance otherwise, and they are doing that very, very nicely as well. So, it depends on you what people you are getting up there and they will guide the NCC to this or the other direction.

So, your participation, your direction is essential. Do vote please.

And that concludes my little slide here, if there are any questions I'm happy to take them now.

KURTIS LINDQVIST: I forgot to say at the start, for those of you who are new, this presentation used to be given twice, once here and once as part of the GM, but to save us seeing this twice, we decided to move this presentation to here it's considered part of the GM, that's why so many numbers and data regarding membership as well.

Any questions for Axel? I have a question.

You said there was 550 votes out of how many legible? How many votes out of a total number ‑‑

AXEL PAWLIK: We have 12,000 roughly, not quite, 11,500 or so.

KURTIS LINDQVIST: Have you ever tracked how that is changing as a percentage over years, because 15 years ago we used to be 16 votes ‑‑

AXEL PAWLIK: And less members. Actually I'm not aware that. I'm sort of looking past you, Serge, do we have that number?

KURTIS LINDQVIST: I think it would be interesting over time that is actually improving or just a notion.

AXEL PAWLIK: I would guesstimate that it has increased quite strongly over the last couple of years, over the last one or two it might have gone down a little bit because of rapid growth.

KURTIS LINDQVIST: Thank you. Axel.


That gives us Paul, he gets five minutes extra which I'm sure he will use.

PAUL RENDEK: Good afternoon everyone, my name is Paul Rendek and I am the Director of External Regulations for the RIPE NCC. And I'm here to give you a bit I have of of an update what's happening in our external activities or our outreach locations. Inside the NCC our department has probably gone through, I would say in 2004, a very big change, we have had some additions. I'm going to walk you through this, and we're, I think, we're on the road to where we need to be, but there has been enormous changes and they have been positive in my opinion, so I'd like to share them with you.

So, what is the External Relations Department concentrating on? We concentrate on managing our engagements, and these cover all the RIPE NCC Stakeholders, naturally the community and our members do come first in this space but we do work with governments, law enforcement and even civil society bodies, international governmental organisations as well. And as Axel pointed out we are a membership body of around 12,000, spread over 76 countries. So when you look at this, okay, the figure looks wonderful it's impressive, but it's very hard to get around this because you have got a lot of diverse languages, different business cultures going on all over the different area, and the geographical coverage is quite vast.

If we take a look at what the what our team looked at until quite recently. You take a look at this service region which is big and you saw this lovely star there in Amsterdam, which is where we were all based. Today, we look a little different than that. We have a branch office in Moscow and we have a branch office in Dubai and I have actually put these points down so you can see where we are when we are covering the geographical region. The circles here are actually representing where we have the overlaps in this, because I think it's impossible for us to work in silos and work in these areas and not come together as an organisation and show a united front. As you can see there is some overlap there coming from Europe into the, where you see Russia and central Asia and you have an even bigger overlap where you see the Arab world coming together with central Asia. If you look at this, surprisingly enough, Amsterdam probably makes a lot of sense to those you you in western or central Europe, but Amsterdam in somebody in Kazakhstan, it is just a lovely city in a country way over there and relevance starts to diminish a little bit. So we thought by having these branch offices we could come a bit closer to the members in the community there and have a little bit of a fairer representation to bring the whole membership and community together. So what do we look like in these areas?

There is a wonderful team of people here, there are two in Amsterdam, Chris and Marco. Maxim and Anton in Moscow and Chafic, Hisham and Sandra others in Dubai. Again if we start with the Amsterdam, we have Chris and we have Marco. Chris is probably a bit more stronger in the general ER area and public affairs, Marco brings a wealth of technical expertise in the group. We have replicated the same thing in the other offices where you have got Maxim and Anton being a bit more technical and Hisham being more technical down into the Dubai office. So, with that, I can say that with these offices, we feel we are complete.

We have a diverse team that's able to serve all the Stakeholders across the service region. And each of these offices actually address very specific concerns and needs that come out of those, but of course, we're all working towards one goal. If you look at this diverse region, we're at different stages of development in the Internet in all these pieces so our approach is sometimes is different in what we do. We have the language that comes in, we have the geography spread as I mentioned, and we have politics, which also seems to play a role in all of these areas which is not surprising. So with these three offices we help to coordinate where we feel we can effectively tackle issues affecting our entire membership and community.

So getting down into some of the nitty gritty, I'm going to walk through a few highlights of what's happening.

In the Dubai office, capacity building seems to be the thing that our community and members and even other Stakeholders are very interested in. We hold IPv6 road shows, I think some of you may be familiar with those. I have presented about that in the past. We have something very new that's just popped up about a month ago, called train‑the‑trainer and it's a cooperative initiative that we have actually led with three countries and that's the UAE, Saudi Arabia and Lebanon and we have done this together with their regulators and community. We feel with train‑the‑trainer what is very important is they want to train the local folks to be able to train the local folks and that's something that we feel will take capacity to a larger level and probably what the RIPE NCC could handle on its own. We have had some very strong support in Yemen, we have brought the Yemeni community together on a number of occasions they are traditionally a country that the very IT based and hasn't gone outside its walls in what it does in Internet development. We have spent a lot of time with them because it was very hard for us to go to Yemen we have had to pull all the Yemeni folks to Jordan where we have done the training for them also with RIPE community people involved in this, so it's been an effort that we have used the community to help us with as well.

And the engagement there has also been with obviously engineers, in the field there and with the public sector. Incidentally, what's happened that the last time we brought them to Jordan they ended up with some trouble in their country and all of those folks are still stuck in Jordan, which is not a great thing. And we actually felt a little bit bad because the training kind of came in a time when we had brought them over to Jordan. So, what we did, they are still there and we have gone there repeated times to Jordan and used that time to actually train them so it's been pretty positive as much as we could get it. There is greater engagement going on with technical meetings and you know, public sector groups that we're engaging with there. And we have had a regional event in November in Tehran which showed us numbers that looked probably very close to what a mine meeting likes like, that was brilliant, a warmer welcome we couldn't have got from the community there in Tehran and they are a very talented bunch of networkers and it was great to be there with them. We contribute to a lot of regional and national IPv6 initiatives in the region. This seems to be a buzz word not only from the sense of just deploying but they are taking a look at what IPv6 can do for their bottom line. They are very interested in this Internet of things buzz word we have heard of and the whole mobile Internet and what's happening there so they have embraced v6 in that way. We work particularly well with the UAE and Saudi Arabia which are obviously two leading countries there and we're hoping with these initiatives we can spark some interests for the others to copey this in the rest of the region.

So Arabic language engagement. The phone does ring and there are people on the line that want to speak Arabic and that's fantastic, so we can give them a bit of that. We do, as Axel mentioned we translate the PDPs into the Arabic language and we have seen that there's been an uptake and I think Marco submitted had shown you where he's seen the up take of areas where people are getting involved in the PDP and they're coming from that corridor from Russia down to Yemen is increasing and that's positive.

So, moving over to Moscow. We're actually concentrating on our membership engagement there. It is a very big country. Do not be fooled, geographically very huge, large population, so, to get around that, is quite a task. So in that region, we hadn't even jumped out of Russia, we had a membership lunch, we have these short kind of half‑day membership lunches that take place where we bring the members together, give them ‑‑ have them over for a lunch and then talk about some of the issues that are going on, the services and bring them up to speed and make them feel like they're part of the fold. So one has happened in Belarus in Minx and then Semara and the rest here and then we have a few others that are coming in the pipeline. And it's been great to see the reception that we have as RIPE NCC coming into those areas.

The feedback, very valuable feedback from them; and obviously we're raising awareness on the whole v6 issues and IPv4 exhaustion that they are very concerned about in those areas. And also, raising awareness about the services such as Atlas which seems to be very popular in the Russian area.

And we're having the one‑day RIPE NCC regional meetings that are taking place, our next one is actually next week, so a pile of us are moving over to Georgia, to that area, we plan on going there. In September we will be going to Armenia so again we're trying to have that coverage in that part of the area, it's a lot easier for us to hold these shorter one‑day meetings, they require a lot less resources from us, costs are down and we can hit it quite nicely in a nice packaged meeting.

And then we are coordinating participation inside the regional technical meetings. Instead of holding only our own meetings we are piggy‑backing on to some of the others so we have become quite popular in the Russian Internet week, the Russian IEGF and Hos sore, which is another one of their Internet conferences. So we have a presence there from the RIPE NCC, we're participating, being part of the community.

And building our Russianing language engagement is also very important there. Inside of ENOG there is a local kind of language, localization language issue, where they are taking a look the a various things that are happening in the RIPE NCC for instance in documents and things like PDP or what have you, announcements that come out, and there is a task force there that's working together, the community are working together, to translate the documentation for themselves appropriately, so we like to be involved with that and that's a lovely ENOG initiative there. Then of course the translations of the PDP reports as I mentioned.

Now then coming back to Amsterdam. Membership engagement is something that's very high on the card here, we have had member lunches in Barcelona and in Madrid alongside the GSMA association meeting that was there, so we could kind of hit two birds there at one time. We are planning in the very near future, before the summer, to go to Paris, so we'll be in France having a member lunch there as well. The feedback from these is just great for us and it's nice to bring this back into the team.

Building on the public sector engagement here is big for us, we do have very solid relations with the European Commission and that requires a lot of energy to keep that in motion, so we do spend time on that. Briefing the commission and member states on IANA stewardship is obviously one of the big things that we're concentrating on because the IANA stewardship transition takes up quite a lot of the resources inside of our ER group.

And we contribute to the CEPT com ITU which is the European group inside the ITU which deals with all the IT issues there. We actually have a Letter of Understanding that we plan on signing with them to be a permanent observer, which is a lovely thing. They have welcomed us, they do enjoy the kind of information that they receive from us, factual information coming from the RIPE NCC which helps them build their positions when they go into their event inside the ITU.

So, we also have continuing engagement with the LEA Stakeholders, we probably have the strongest relationships with them here in the European part. The RIPE NCC throws an LEA meeting in March every year, which we're very welcomed in the UK alongside the e‑Crime congress that takes place there. They give us a full day slot inside of their week programme where we get to get all the law enforcement together and update them on what's happening and make sure we maintain good relations there.

Recently there was a GCCS, a security conference here in the Hague just about a month ago or so, where we attended and we were very surprised to see how many RIPE community people were attending that meeting as well. So that was positive to see the community working in that security aspect because there was a lot of Government folks coming together, public /private sector folks coming together.

And then capacity building efforts which we work on with Europol, EC3, Europol and Interpol along all kinds of areas, Interpol obviously outside the European area.

And we have actually joined EuroDIG, which is the kind of arm or the European IEGF portion there. We have signed an institutional partnership with them for a three year period where we work together with them, we are kind of part of the organisational part so we can bring the technical community aspects right into the EuroDIG area, and that's very positive.

What are we focuing on in 2015? Membership. This is the first part. Are we meeting the membership needs from the ER perspective? There were loot of concerns raised in RIPE NCC surveys, we have seen them, you know, coming back direct feedback and we're also watching and seeing what's happening out there, so with these three things we're putting together our focus for what we do inside of external /RAOEPLGSs, so what comes out of that in the strategies that we have there. We felt that member lunches, smaller scale, lower cost engagements seem to be very effective where we can just get direct feedback from folks on our services and on what they are wanting to see from the NCC and bring it back into the RIPE NCC.

The regional meetings, very popular I'm sure some you have seen us popping up in all parts of areas, probably in that corridor from Russia down to Yemen, we have been pretty active with these one‑day kind of national events and they have been quite successful.

And we're supporting and participating in regional national NOGs and that's probably the heaviest that we'd see in western and central Europe. We do have funds available for this, we have been approached. It's nice to see that we can get the communities, the smaller parts of the communities, it's very important for them maybe nationally, even regionally, to get together and we can support that as well.

So, the most important thing to look at here is that the different regions actually require different approaches. I mean, again, I mention that folks are at different stages of development and one size does not fit all for a region like this.

Capacity building: This is another part where the ER is spending quite a lot of its resources in 2015. Obviously training, education, it's a vital part of the RIPE NCC mission. The public and private sector partnerships that we have in capacity building and expanding our reach out there have proven to be quite successful, and we're continuing on this road. The current examples of this would be the IPv6 roadshow events which are very popular in the Middle East. In fact, so popular that we really can't handle it with our own resources and we're looking at other folks to help us do some of this training and move this along.

The Train‑the‑Trainer programme, very successful launch in the UAE as I remembered mentioned earlier. We plan on expanding this and moving these also into Russia and central Asia parts we see this as something that we want, it's the way to go if we want to build capacity on a larger scale.

And then Internet fundamentals, some of the more fundamentals of the Internet sessions at these Internet governance meetings which help governments get their heads around some of the issues that are very commonplace for folks in this room.

So, the factual support actually to these governments, regulators and LEAs and international organisations such as the OECD is something that's held in high regard and something that we do focus on, and you know, in this capacity building area, I do have to say that you know, ER, or external relations, is not something that is confined to the team of people that I showed you. External Relations inside the RIPE NCC is probably a much wider and larger group. I don't think we could carry out any of this without will really some of the great talents that we have in our Training Services Department that help us sometimes at the flip of a hat put something together and get out there and make sure we can get the message. So I'm very thankful to these folks in Training that help us get where we need to go with the capacity building.

And then on the Internet governance side. Obviously this is a focus for us as well, if we look at maybe the public affairs side of what ER does. Another year ahead of us, significant year ahead of us for Internet governance. The IANA stewardship transition, it factors into all of our discussions from what we can see now across the board and that's probably no surprise to you all here in the room. We provide a lot of support out of the ER for the CRISP efforts that come in and even the wider Internet governance ‑‑ sorry, in the ICANN accountability arean with what's happening with the whole IANA stewardship transition.

WSIS plus 10, I have present on the that in the past. That was ten years ago, if you can well imagine that, here we are which is I say is on our door stop because after ten years they are thing this whole debate back up inside the US, that's going to take place this year. The last portion of that happens in a very big meeting of the UN assembly in New York in December. So, we have quite a lot of work to do in that area leading up to December.

Incidentally, one of the things I mentioned when yesterday when we were having the CRISP update and IANA stewardship update. If we look at what's happening here the whole multi‑Stakeholder process which has been recognised in WSIS and has jumped out of this programme taking place is now under threat and we have a few of these months to work together with governments and other sectors to see how we can move forward and secure the bottom up inclusive way of working which we all enjoy.

So, there is likely to be a decision on this, where this whole multi‑Stakeholder process is moving, which will also have an impact on the future of the IEGF, because the IEGF actually hangs on the balance of whether this WSIS group will want to renew the IEGF mandate or not. We are supporting that, we can see that there have been mention out there of support from a lot of governments and Government agencies but this is something that will be decideed in December, so we'll see.

Effectively communication coordination, it's the key. Without our star colleagues, ISOC, ICANN, IETF, all of these folks, we have to work together to have a unified front when we go out there as the technical community. That's very important. Governments, including the ITU groups, I did mention CEPT, which is the European area, there is also RCC which is Russia and you know parts of central Asia there. We also have ties there. And the Arab group. We also are very much welcomed in these meetings. These are normal closed Government meetings and I'm very surprised to see, especially the RCC and Arab group meetings, but I'm very surprised to see that I receive invitations to come and join those closed Government meetings and they welcome the NCC there, so that's quite positive for us.

So, the NCC role, I would say is to provide independent technical expertise, we are not public policy lobbyists and we are not seen as that and that's important. Because I think for the areas outside of Europe that we have these you in relations with, or newer relations with, it is very important not to be seen as a lobbyist body and I think that's why we do get invited. We are a trusted source of information for them. And we have various governments coming to us asking us for fact sheets and documenting down facts that we can give them about information that we hold that help them with their positions. Very important. So we would like to keep this kind of relationship. It's important to keep our mandate there.

So, 2015 areas of focus as far as relationships go. Technical community, obviously, I mention these folks, the ccTLD operators, the other RIRs, ICANN, we need to keep these relationships strong and we do and this is something that ER spends quite sometime on. Another one that hasn't been on the list, but in the last year has been something very important for us and we are ramping this up in 2015, is our relationship with GSM association, we see that when we're out there in some these meetings, especially these governance meetings we seem to be standing side by side with GSMA and that's lovely to see. The RIPE NCC membership and the GSMA membership, obviously you can imagine there's a massive intersection of where we see other membership going, I think with all this talk with mobile internet and I think we're even seeing it not just talk and Internet of things and the rest of this, the GSMA is somebody who wee see as a great partner moving forward. So we are vamping up our our relations there.

The European Commission, the GCC, the Gulf Cooperation Council, these are bodies where we need to keep our relations strong and moving into these areas, national regulators, here why Europe, he do obviously have the relations with the regulatory bodies, but they play a bit of a different role here than they do in other areas, if you look at the Arab world for instance they really look at their regulators to see, to kind of gauge what they should and shouldn't be doing. So, if you are going to engage inside the Arab world a good place to start, if you're talking about IT developments, is probably with the regulatory bodies, so that's exactly what we have done, and so that's why they kind ‑‑ we have placed them here national regulators. Then of course there's Europol, Interpol and the national LEAs, so this is our focus of relationships for 2015.

And with that, I'm happy to take any questions.

AUDIENCE SPEAKER: /SERG a, speaking as a member of ENOG community. In order to provide feedback, I would like to thank the NCC for all efforts making for the regional outreach project. I hope you will continue to spend time and money resources with this regional project.

PAUL RENDEK: Thank you very much for that. Thank you.

AUDIENCE SPEAKER: Hello, Shane Kerr, BII. So, yeah, I also think it's a good thing. I think you know we have regional Internet registries for a reason and then within the RIPE region certainly there is these regional differences, so, I don't know, maybe I missed it, but is there any attention being ‑‑ I didn't see anything about the Balkans, and I know there is regional meetings there now, and I was wondering maybe what the ER group does and what the plans are with that.

PAUL RENDEK: Right. We just had an SEE meeting with southeast Europe, meeting which took place a couple of week ago in Serbia, again very well attended and I have to say that for many of us those southeast Europe meeting there is a great vibe and buzz going on there, their community comes together quite nicely, with a large attendance as well.

So we obviously are involved in what goes on in those SEE meetings. I probably would have, in this, clumped that part into Europe, central Europe and southeast Europe, I would say that that's ‑‑ they tend to be really a part of that. Although of course in their development stages, they are also looking at different things than you would see in western Europe. We do team up very frequently with the internet society on things such as IXP developments, on NOG developments, we see them popping up in the southeast Europe area so we are there, we have made it very clear that we have funding available, but not just so much the funding because the money is not really the problem, it's getting the resources of manpower and those folks that are in the know that would like to come and exchange the information so we do have a lot of activity going on in that part too Shane.

AUDIENCE SPEAKER: Andy Davidson. I just ‑‑ I don't really talk very often in this Working Group although I hold a great many opinions, and I just ‑‑ I really, really enjoyed and appreciated the feedback of what you are doing outside of western Europe and wanted to support some of things you said about how different it is. I have worked closely with organisations in the two regions that are not western Europe region inside the service region, and something I learned that I didn't have working in those regions with third parties was any patience at all. Patience is really, really important, it's clear that you had a lot of patience for a long time because really good outcomes are falling out of the process now. So, that's to be seen and respected and thank you very much for that because I certainly don't have the patience to do any of that stuff.

PAUL RENDEK: Thank you very much Andy. Thank you. Yes, patience is something that you have to have a different level of for some of the other areas and I appreciate that the thank you.

AUDIENCE SPEAKER: Alexander, also from ENOG region, I also want to thank you and I strongly confirm what Andy said, because you need patience, you need more activities because you have outreach in ENOG region for two or three years but now we have seen results, but also, you have excellent presentation, excellent results, you got in this regions, but still don't stop. Again, as membership maybe later in general meeting, request you to more actively work in this region and one of the indications that more even work of external outreach is needed, at the previous presentation, we see the slide of on registrations to general meeting with number of countries, Belarus have zero registration, it's a NOG region, Estonia have zero registrations and it's crossing between Amsterdam and Moscow. Croatia has zero registrations, so, need to go motivate your members, thank you again. And continue your work. And we will watch.

PAUL RENDEK: Absolutely, thank you. Like I said it's nice today's this feedback. It's not all rosey all the time. I can tell that you one of the biggest challenges for us, this is the first time the RIPE NCC has had staff outside the Amsterdam office and distance was something that I was actually quite worried about in making sure that we can keep in the fold. We do have challenges with that and I think it's important for even our folks inside of Amsterdam to see that things don't necessarily operate maybe the way that we all see it in Amsterdam, and we're trying to actually bring our folks out and bring the information back in so that we have an understanding of the differences in the way that we work.

But I can tell you that the work that we're doing here is directly from the outcomes of the surveys and your feedback, so your push in telling us what you wanted to see is what we're delivering so thank you for your feedback and we'll continue to do that.

KURTIS LINDQVIST: Thank you Paul. Moving swiftly on. Next is Kaveh with the operation update.

KAVEH RANJBAR: Good afternoon. I am Chief Information Officer at the RIPE NCC. And in this presentation, I will take you through the technical services we provide and by technical services, I mean mostly the global services we provide, so they are not restricted to the membership but in many cases, our community and our members have an advantage.

So, let's start with the DNS services. We are the authoritative DNS service for the reverse zone in RIPE region for IPv4 and IPv6. Also we provide secondary services for 77 ccTLDs, mostly within our region but some of them outside the region. And all of these services are being discussed in the DNS Working Group. So that's where this is moderated. For these services at the moment we have one provisioning site. We are working to add a second one, the provisioning site is where we basically administrate these zones and they are being served from three Anycast locations around Europe and we are looking to see if there is expansion needed and how to move forward. At the moment we really have no load issue or anything.

One interesting fact about that is we actually one through different name servers, so this is a technical thing but it's a nice set up and adds a lot to the resiliency of the whole service.

We provide also services for diagnotstics, network diagnostics and also to provide support to network operators and also research. For diagnostics and support tool operators, the flagship services is RIPE Stat which is basically a one‑stop shop for many different types of data which we aggregate, we aggregate routing data mostly from RIS, the project that we have been running for the past 15 years, our registry and also other RIRs and other registries like routing registries, abuse information from third‑party providers, spam meeting information from Google geolocation and obviously the RIPE Atlas data. So we aggregate them and we try to aggregate them in the most meaningful way for users to be able to get most out of the data, because normally there is a huge amount of data we are talking about. And all of this is available through web based interfaces and API. And important thing about RIPEstat is actually the grouping is provided, the aggregation is provided through groupings as well and one of the groupings we have for example you can type in app country code and you get all the information we have aggregated for the single country and we're working to add more to these groupings, for example to be able to get information about the region or a specific operator and things like that. As Axel mentioned in his presentation, basically we get a lot of requests on RIPE Stat and it's growing really fast. Last month we had about 135 million data requests. This month we are already getting close to this. So it's really growing fast. And this is a good thing because we see look at also the type of queries, we SOA a lot of operators are understanding how to use these tools and there is a lot of tools being built to use RIPE Stat. We use other services based op RIPE Atlas. For example global network monitoring, if you are a network operator you can monitor your network from all around the globe and get notification in your network is not reachable from one part of the world. DNSMON is very well known TLD monitoring system which is again used by many TLD operators.

This is an example from RIPE Stat, I strongly suggest you also try this. This is a grouping of routing statistics for Netherlands on the left where you see that this is from basically ten years ago you can actually see how many ASNs we have at the moment but at any point in time, this is IPv6, this is IPv4, and this is a number of ASNs, so you can actually play with the data, you can zoom in and out and there is a lot of historical and up to date live information here. Here is another example. This is again another aggregation for NL, you can see all the IPv4 or IPv6 prefixes used in the corrupt and the ASN.

So, we also do a lot of research, they are mostly published on RIPE Labs but sometimes we also participate in Working Group discussions within the RIPE region or sometimes outside the RIPE region and normally we either look into events like major, for example, eqrthquakes or BGP leaks or things like that, and when an event happens we look into how that affects the Internet connectivity for the people basically living in that region. And we also look into trends. So, one recent example, if you go to RIPE Labs, I think it's one of the last articles, it's basically about the trend of IPv4 transfers in the RIPE region after the runout. So, this is the other type of research we do. We also work closely with researchers from different organisations for example at the moment we are working with George Michaelson from APNIC, and another thing that basically comes from the research team is coming up with new ideas and prototyping them and one of them which was discussed in the last session in MAT, is open IP maps, which is a project basically an idea, a prototype, to be ‑‑ to geolocate different infrastructure, geolocate routers, data centres, things like that, that can be useful for operators and researchers likewise, so for example you can visualise traceroutes.

So RIPE Atlas. RIPE Atlas I'm sure most of you already know, it's a large active measurement network, this is where we have all of these probes installed mostly in homes, sometimes in offices, and it has a good coverage, at the moment we have about 8,200 probes active, we also have anchors, RIPE Atlas anchors, they are basically the probes, but we also see them as more stable targets. They say are black mountable hardware devices. At the moment we have 120 of them. And we run millions of measurements everyday. It's not that we run them. Some of them are run calmically by the system but a lot of them are scheduled by the users of the system and actually you don't even need to host a probe to be able to use the system and do measurements. We preserve all the history. Last year for example we did 76 billion measurements on the network and all of that is publicly available through the API and you can dig into data on the web interface with all the tools we have. At the moment we do different type of measurements, trace route, DNS, SSL and one other one is NTP and we're working with the community on adding support for http and also wifi measurements.

Data streaming was announced on Monday, there was a lightning talk about that that enables you to get the measurements data in near realtime.

So, with Atlas we are aiming to expand the network, our goal is to have 10,000 active probes this year and with that we think we will have statistically relevant example of the Internet nor experiments and research. You can't have a silver bullet but it should be a good sample. It should cover up to ten percent of ASNs, active ASNs on the Internet.

We are also working on new generation of probes, which are multiple factors in play here, logistics, costs, technology and all the possibilities that the probes supports. But one of the things we're looking in is actually the opt‑in wifi measurements which a lot of users asked for on the list.

We also, for this year, we reduced the budget by 20%, but basically we didn't downsize the project, it was gained through more operational efficiency and also assistance from interested parties by making donations to the project. And we have the same ‑‑ we are going to at any time same trend for next two years as it was brought up in Services before, the Board is very closely monitoring this project as well, so, that's the current plan that we are, we have agreed with the board.

And last but not least, K‑root expansion. So, at the moment, we operate K‑root in a model which is basically, has ‑‑ it's not a /KHRAT I can Anycast, but also you have global nodes and local nodes. The global nodes are the nodes that the whole world sees and we have five of them in different locations. Miami, Amsterdam, Frankfurt, Tokyo and London. We have 12 local nodes which have ‑‑ which by BGP, we have more limited visibility, so, this was the system that we were using but it was really high maintenance and had a lot of costs basically because a lot of that was actually FDE costs because peering management takes time; in the connect session, this morning, we also saw that presentation by Nick, who mentioned exactly this issue.

So, we tried to think of a new model, last year we spent a few cycles on that, and we basically came up with a hosted model, where most ‑‑ so we will keep the five global nodes that we have, and those five global nodes should be able to serve all of the K‑root traffic even we actually go for three of them should be able to handle peak traffic for K‑root. And then we let others who want to host nodes, we allow them to host single boxes, they have to get the boxes, and we have some connectivity requirements but again we try to get to set up for the minimum required. And interested hosts can basically install those boxes in their network and start having a K‑root node. From our side it's mostly automated, the whole process is automated actually and if something happens to the node for whatever reason it's taken offer the Anycast network until the problem is resolved. That means without adding any ‑‑ we don't basically any noticeable addition to the resources, we can expand the network and we already had a lot of requests from the community mostly ISPs to go to be able to host, to give them the K‑root nodes.

And in this, we were basically consider every request and what we are particularly interested in the hosts that can improve the K‑root access globally. Basically hosts in the underserved areas and we have done some measurements and we are constantly doing measurements on that. We have published a RIPE lab article an the measurements are ongoing. Basically under served area and when we go to there or see people from there we encourage them to host one of these nodes. But anyone it welcome to apply. And that basically requests, request to host a node. We don't expect a huge number of requests, but, if it comes that for example, let's say we have more than 100 hosts and we say okay, we need an additional FDE to be able to manage this that means the budget and the cost for the project will increase, in that case we will definitely come back to the community and to the membership to discuss if we want to continue that expansion or we want to stop the project. But for the moment this project is not adding any cost to the K‑root budgets.

So basically, that's it. Any questions? Comments?

AUDIENCE SPEAKER: Thank you. Nurani from Netnod. Interesting to see where you're going with K‑root. I was just wondering about how do you see the plans for the coming years? Do you have a rate at which you are expected to continue to increase your footprint? Do you have a limit? Have you said not more than this particular rate per year, etc.?

KAVEH RANJBAR: At the moment we don't have any specific limits. As I said if it's going to affect our budget, that will be the point where we will check with the community. But we still have to look into the rates. So, for the first few ones we will closely monitor, we have already test the system technically and the processwise, but because we have never had an open basically call for hosting K‑root, we don't know exactly the rate; but looking at the history and the requests we get, we think it should be about like up to five a month, but we really don't know, and as I said for us the most important thing at the moment is to not add any pressure to the team, because we don't want to add additional resources to be able to maintain that. But because of the all the automation we have introduced now we have a few cycles which we can use to basically start these new ones, but we will closely monitor that and if anything changes we will definitely report back to the community.

KURTIS LINDQVIST: Any other questions? No? All right. Thank you very much.


So, next up we have Mihnea‑Costin update on the redesigned RIPE NCC website.

MIHNEA‑COSTIN GRIGORE: Hello. And good evening, I am Mihnea‑Costin Grigore on the web services team within the RIPE NCC. And as you probably know, we have a new website. I hope most of you have seen it already, and I want to tell you that we have had a long year behind us where we worked hard to get this site ready. And there will be a lot of details we'll tell you about. Unfortunately we only have a few minutes tonight, so I'll just go over the highlights. But if you want to know anything more about it, feel free to ask me over e‑mail or meet me on the corridors here and I'll be happy to tell you you the details.

If we go over the main aspect of the web design. We navigation, search and design of the site. We didn't come to these by random choice. We just went through a process of analysing the site and analysing the way people work with it, and the main focus of that was to improve the experience for everyone. So let me go a bit through the history of that and the process, the results and improvements that we took out of that and then some ideas of which the development I have for the website.

Going back to about five years ago, we used to have a website that was pure HDML and all the updates to it were done manually which took a lot of man hours and led to sometimes mishaps here and there and it was very painful to update. But, what we did then was to implement a CMS, a Content Management System that allowed us to make everything a lot smoother and to update the content of the site in a much easier way. Also, we implemented a design that was quite modern for that time. But of course that was 2011.

So, over time, things started building up. We started using the CMS which provided a lot of good features for us but also we started to adding a lot of content to the site. Unfortunately this led to the site becoming more and more difficult for people to navigate and find information on the site. We collected a lot of feedback in the process. We did the RIPE NCC survey in 2013. We did focus groups with RIPE NCC members. We usability studies for the website. And through all those, we came up with a lot of feedback from everyone, we collected the feedback and in the end we focused on two main issues, to improve the site navigation, the structure and usability and to improve the search functionality. So how do we do that? Well of course, the next generation.

We went to the process to redesign the website. So forth next generation of the site, we started from the beginning. We wanted to start with new information architecture, and in order to do that we went to a fresh usual third‑party to analyse the site. We deployed web analytic tools. We did face‑to‑face and remote interviews, we ran workshops, online surveys and usability tests. All of that created a tonne of data. So, here you can see just a couple of the examples of the types of graphs we got out of it. People navigating the sites and testing various tree structures, analysing the data to come up with the most used website part of the website and so on.

After all that, which took quite a while, we came up with a new top level information structure for the site. And what we wanted to do with this new top level structure was, first of all, to bring up content from the site that people were trying to access but they couldn't get to; for example information about the RIPE NCC, so, that's why we created a new balance top at the top level. We also wanted to rename some of the sections to make it easy for people to call to call to action and action verbs about that, so that's why we're calling them manage IPs or analyse or participate.

And then all the content behind that has also been organised to better fit into the usage patterns we could see from the research.

In parallel we had to optimise the search for the site. And that's an interesting tasks because we have about 10,000 items in the information functionality system. We have about 40,000 e‑mails that people can search through from the mailing lists that the RIPE community uses and we have about 5,000 blog posts. And the interesting thing is to improve that we had to go to the content. Basically we did an internal search engine optmisation process to improve the way data is being found by our own search engine. For example, just changing the title of a page from Minutes to RIPE 69 makes is a lot easier to find when you are looking for specific minutes from that meeting. That was part of it and the greatest part of improving the search. But we also worked on the search algorithm, making it smarter especially when it came to detecting things likes policy proposal for example, which was quite tricky for it to separate from a date. Or, dates for specific meetings.

And last but not least we also improved the search interface for the website. Removing all the graphs and the features that people were not using at all adding tabs to make it easy to search in mailing lists or the RIPE database.

All through this process it became evident no in order to make best use of the resources on the information architecture and the redesign we also needed to create a fresh image or the site, a new graphics design, we also embarked on this process. The result of that was a design which we believe focuses on the content. A design which makes it a lot easier and cleaner to view and to find information you want tonight site while at the same time being very functional. On the technical side of this, from our analytics it turns out of you most of of you use the website from work from a wide screen PC or laptop. We optimised it for desks tops. There is a growing trend of people using mobile devices and we kept that in mind, and we made it responsive, it adapts automatically for tablets or phones. And we'll keep that in mind as well in the future.

We also use the latest technology to make it a lot cleaner and to make it also more performant.

So how about some of the results of this? We launched the new site exactly one month ago to the day. And of course, one of the focus points of our redesign was improving the search, for example, then of course take this with grain of salt. It's just one month of statistics, but before the new launch, we had people searching a lot for IP addresses on the site. And you can see this here, most of that is people looking for IP addresses and we implemented the smart way of the the way to detect that and send them to the WHOIS search. That's one part the second is typing the search interface. The funny part is after we launched that changed completely. No more IP addresses and one thing that we kept hearing was that people were using Google to find information on Well, after the launch, it seems that people are using to find Google. That's interesting.

And other things, we can point out to again relating to the search, we used to have about 1500 searches a day, host of them for IP addresses. After the launch we have about 200. Also the performance of the at the moment place improved a lot. We made it by using all the latest technologies we made it three times lighter and faster to load. And as part of the content optimisation part I was talking to you about, we managed to archive a lot of content on the site so that it doesn't show up in searches, it's important to note that this doesn't mean it's been deleted, it's still there and can be accessed; it just means it's a lot easier to search for current content instead of getting a lot of whole results in the search by default.

Other improvements that also came out of this, we're using RIPE NCC access on every page of the site which makes it a lot easier for you to log into RIPE Atlas or RIPE Labs with the LIR portal. We implemented the diff tool which was requested, which allows you to see and compare two different versions of RIPE document. We have automatically generated ASCII files of RIPE documents and the whole site is differed on HTPS, all of these were perled on ‑‑

Intangible benefits that came out of this also, that you cannot see on the site but do have an impact on the quality of your experience. Enhanced cooperation between our internal teams, we worked a lot with every team in the company to make that happen. That led to a lot tighter and visual and functional integration of the website. They look and feel the same and it's something we hear at the meeting when we ask people, they go to one site, one company, there is a lot of different ones working together and we're very happy to see that.

And we also now have a very modern and flexible code basis that we can basis future improvements on.

And talking about future improvements. We have a lot of ideas for the future. We only see this as the first step in providing an even better online experience for everyone that comes to the RIPE NCC website. We want to extend the RIPE NCC access integration with features such as modifications or customer content. We want to periodically review and test the website and finetune the navigation based on everything from statistics to online surveys. And we want to review the whole site content because we realise a lot of it it has been there for ages and even though we have a new website, some of the content is still old, so we are planning to constantly clean up an stream line that content on the site. And also we'll do a lot of work to make it work better.

So that's about it. As I said, there is a lot more information. We have a series of RIPE Labs articles, you can find them on the link. You can also contact us over e‑mail or talk to us in person at the RIPE meeting. Thank you very much. And I'll be happy to take any questions.

ELVIS: I have got a quick question for you. I did notice the redesign of the website when I noticed that the new website loads slower.

MIHNEA‑COSTIN GRIGORE: That's interesting because our statistics show it's faster. We'll test ‑‑

AUDIENCE SPEAKER: It could be my Mac, but my impression is that the images in the middle, the four images, or, were causing the text to show up later than the images, anyway, something about that. And I was wondering whether you would have any ideas for the future to just create the RIPE database link that could easily load from a mobile or from a computer so that you don't have to actually load the whole website when you want to do a RIPE database search.

MIHNEA‑COSTIN GRIGORE: Yeah, that is possible already, you can go to the link for the RIPE database and one way we tried to improve that was to actually have the search tabbed so you can go straight to that box which actually also works from a mobile device. But of course that's an interesting idea and we'll look into that with our colleagues from the database team.

AUDIENCE SPEAKER: Dmitry, thanks a lot for the new site. I notice today that it's very fluid and the design works with the new width of the screen. I think the RIPE meeting website may need some face lift as well. And last but not lease the ENOG website by seems to be based on an older version of website. But I think the meeting site, especially the drop‑down menus, please kill those, they don't work with the mobile devices, and you know that.

MIHNEA‑COSTIN GRIGORE: I agree with you we do need to focus on the meeting website and on ENOG as well, that's basically next on our list.

AUDIENCE SPEAKER: They are smaller than the main site.

MIHNEA‑COSTIN GRIGORE: They are also very intensely used but ‑‑ as I said, it's next on our list, so stay tuned.


AUDIENCE SPEAKER: Wilfried here, and I had the fun to use the new website over the last couple of days due to searching for some stuff.

Two comments. The first one to the drop in the search attempt, I was tripping over that wire myself until about a quarter of an hour ago, because I couldn't any longer find the general search input field, and then a quarter of an hour ago I got alerted that I have to move to the next tab from the WHOIS search to the website search. So, if I am any sort of typical long‑term trained optical type user, this may be one of the explanations by you seeing that many less search attempts on the website. And the other thing, and I'm going to talk to you off line, I think there is still some structural problem in the display of some of the pages when I do not divulge the whole width of the screen to this website. In particular with the Atlas thing, just ten minutes ago I recognised that unless you donate the full screen with, I don't have any possibility for example to access the tab of my Ambassador probes because this is not shown and there is no scroll bar, but this is off line stuff, but just to let you know that the mobile device thing and that sort of thing is very nice, but the regular use thing might need a little bit of tweaking still.

MIHNEA‑COSTIN GRIGORE: Of course, thank you very much for the feedback. And I look forward to ‑‑

WILIFRIED WOEBER: That's the new website designs of everyone doing that, has some of the minor things.

MIHNEA‑COSTIN GRIGORE: Okay. Well thank you.

KURTIS LINDQVIST: Okay. I think that's it. Thank you very much.


So, next up is me again. On the Chair selection process, as promised at the last RIPE meeting in London, we wrote up the process as described and sent out to the list, and the idea is to have two or three Working Group Chairs, I don't see a need to have more than two at the moment, but in the future you might want to have three, and that they are set for a two year period, and they rotate every year and we have a selection, of a two week nomination period followed by a two week discussion period and then the Chair or chairs not up for selection will declare consensus as I explained in London. I issued a two‑week discussion period for this. I had one clarifying question, far on the mailing list, that ends next Tuesday. If there is no further comments, our plan till next Tuesday to open the call for nominations and we decided that the first Chair up for selection or recolleciton is Bijal so her seat will be up as of Tuesday for nominations, and then we'll have a two‑week nomination, two week discussion and then move on with that on the mailing list.

Any questions on that? One thing I didn't say in the e‑mail is that I noticed that not all or I don't think any other Working Group group have done this are actually planning to put this online on the NCC web page on the actual website, the actual text for future reference.

Okay, I don't see anyone rushing to the microphone so I guess you are all happy. That leaves us with the open microphone, this is where you can ask questions or comment regarding NCC and the NCC Services, not to me necessarily, but to NCC. I don't see anyone going to the microphones, oh...

AUDIENCE SPEAKER: Maybe it will covered in general meeting, but as far as I remember in previous meetings, we have seen statistics on number of requests of different kind, which was solved by RIPE NCC, will we see it in the general meeting or ‑‑ because, in Axel's presentation we have seen just one number, but there was cool tables and graphs and something like this.

ANDREW: I have lots of cool tables on my laptop so if you are interested I could show you some. I was not intending to give a presentation this time, I do it once a year basically, that's the idea, so that Kaveh can do it once a year and I can do an update at the next RIPE meeting with the numbers. So if you are interested feel free and I'd be glad to talk to you.

KURTIS LINDQVIST: Any other questions?

If not, any other business? No. I think this must be the second time since NCC Services started I have actually finished on time and let the GM start on time ‑‑ since we extended the time, yeah, that's true. Anyway...

Thank you all. That's it. See you next time. And, again, please leave the room as quick as possible so that we can get the room ready for the GM. You'll have to empty the room so that they can get the GM and then they come back in the for the G M. Thank you.